The heavy atmosphere that had lingered for a moment soon dissipated.
Clemens XIV opened his mouth with a benevolent smile.
“I have heard much about you from State Councilor Lazzaro. They say you are a model Catholic believer with unwavering faith.”
“You flatter me. I have only followed the precepts that a believer in God should naturally uphold, so I am embarrassed by such high praise.”
“The problem is that there are too many worldly people who do not uphold those precepts. In these times, someone like you who stays true to the path is precious in itself.”
His expression was certainly smiling, but I sensed a strange wariness.
Even though Cardinal Lazzaro must have spoken to him in advance, he still didn’t seem to trust me completely.
Or perhaps, given France’s actions in recent years, he was showing this much courtesy only because he had been informed beforehand.
“I, too, am saddened that people’s faith seems to be weakening. But at least France will not be swept away by the trends and will firmly maintain its center.”
“Is that your thought alone, or is it also the Crown Prince’s?”
“Of course. The Crown Prince will become the most faithful protector of Catholicism.”
“That is a truly grateful and commendable mindset.”
The Pope paused, looking at the gift I had brought.
He was probably estimating how much of my words he should believe.
Considering that the current Pope had been tormented by France and Spain since he was a cardinal, it was understandable.
As expected, Clemens XIV cautiously brought up the old issues.
“But frankly, I have no choice but to be cautious. Even before the conclave [a meeting of Catholic cardinals to elect a new pope], Spain sent a request that I keep my promises if I became Pope. I remember France was not much different. May I ask why you have suddenly changed direction?”
“To put it simply, the situation has changed. Excuse me for saying so, but have you heard about the current state of affairs in France?”
“I have been quite busy myself, so I do not know the details. But I do remember hearing that the King of France has been actively trying to lead the political situation. I heard that he executed nobles with a new execution device.”
“That’s right. Since you’ve already heard, it will be easier to explain.”
I was, of course, aware that the Pope had been greatly tormented by France.
It is usually difficult to regain the trust of someone who has lost it once.
I had been thinking about how to win over the Pope even before leaving Paris.
Since he had already heard rumors about the guillotine, I could make the most of that.
Perhaps it is always better to make a big splash when starting something.
The Pope, still looking suspicious, tilted his head and asked.
“So, because the situation in France has changed, the policies are changing as well?”
“To be specific, His Majesty originally had no impious intention of putting pressure on the Holy See [the central government of the Catholic Church]. Even when the Society of Jesus [the Jesuits] was unilaterally expelled from France years ago, His Majesty initially expressed his opposition. It was the High Court at the time that handled this arbitrarily. The King only signed off on it after everything was done. This is a fact that remains on record, so you can check it at any time.”
“…Is that so? Well, I did hear that the nobles were the ones who mainly caused trouble.”
“The forces that were swept away in France this time are those nobles of the court. His Majesty resolved not to tolerate their tyranny any longer. So, of course, what they did as they pleased has little to do with us now.”
Of course, the expulsion of the Society of Jesus was caused not only by the court nobles at the time but also by the social atmosphere that desired it.
But the dead tell no tales.
It would be enough to blame all the difficult problems on them and make it as if nothing had happened.
This was something I had already received permission from Louis XV for, so there was no hesitation.
“It seems that more changes have taken place in France than I knew. Well, France and Italy are close, but that doesn’t mean we know everything.”
“Yes. The reason we dispatched a diplomatic mission to the Holy See this time was to explain these changes directly. The fact that the Crown Prince himself came, rather than a general representative, is proof of that. He had a health issue, so I came to see you instead.”
“Indeed… France has been acting consistently. I admit it. I have been through too much lately, and my suspicion has become too deep. I sincerely apologize.”
“No, anyone in that position would have no choice but to do so. Rather, we should apologize for putting you through such hardship.”
I bowed deeply, and the somewhat heavy atmosphere turned amicable.
Cardinal Lazzaro, who had been favorable to me from the beginning, was, of course, pleased, and the Pope’s wariness noticeably lessened.
In the naturally flowing conversation, his tone was friendly.
“I understand that France’s position has changed, but wouldn’t cooperation with Spain and other allies also be important? They will still urge me to expel the Society of Jesus.”
“Yes. That’s certainly true. In fact, we have already taken national measures, so we cannot simply undo what has been done now. I hope you will understand that point.”
“Well… I suppose there’s no helping it. I understand.”
National policy requires a certain degree of consistency.
Especially if it is an issue that has been voiced in unison with allies, it is impossible to overturn it as easily as flipping one’s hand.
If it were a major issue related to national interest, it might be different, but now France was in a position where it had to focus all its efforts on managing its allies.
It would be difficult to unnecessarily antagonize allies here.
And above all, now that I had come to Rome, I needed to create results and raise my profile.
“That’s why I’m telling you this, but I have a proposal for Your Holiness.”
“…Let me hear it. Tell me.”
“Even if France does not actively intervene, countries that have chosen an expansionist path will still urge Your Holiness to make a decision. Since you have already made a promise when you were a cardinal, you will have no justification to refuse. In the end, all you will be able to do is handle it in a way that delays the matter.”
Clemens XIV frowned, clicking his tongue.
He knew that no matter how much he delayed, the situation would eventually unfold as I said.
But simply doing that would not end the matter.
If it looked like the Pope had succumbed to the demands of the great powers, the Pope’s prestige would be tarnished once again.
Moreover, not all European countries wanted to expel the Society of Jesus.
In countries that had not chosen expansionism or where Protestantism was gaining power, public opinion on the expulsion of the Society of Jesus was not very high.
In fact, Prussia cleanly ignored the Pope’s decision to expel the Society of Jesus.
The current Holy See had no way to exert its authority when other countries rejected its pronouncements.
In the end, the Pope’s prestige, which was already at rock bottom, would inevitably fall even further.
In fact, in the original history, Clemens XIV died under suspicious circumstances not long after making the decision to expel the Society of Jesus.
It was not clear whether it was an assassination or a deterioration of health due to extreme stress.
And, futilely, not long after Clemens XIV died, the expulsion of the Society of Jesus was reversed.
It ended with a result where no one won, only losers.
I presented a breakthrough to Clemens XIV, who had sunk into gloom.
Of course, in a direction that would also benefit me.
“If you have no choice but to sign the expulsion of the Society of Jesus, why not reverse your thinking? The point is not to show the secular rulers that Your Holiness has succumbed.”
“That’s easier said than done, but there’s no real way…”
“If we support Your Holiness’s decision, it can certainly look that way. However, the method must be a compromise that satisfies both sides.”
“In other words, you have a plan in mind.”
The Pope’s eyes lit up with anticipation.
It was proof that he had come to trust me to some extent, so it was not a bad flow.
“Yes. In fact, it’s not a very grand method. When viewed coldly, the places where many people want the expulsion of the Society of Jesus are France, Spain, Portugal, the Kingdom of Sicily, and Parma and Lithuania. And among these, the countries with strong power have already expelled the Society of Jesus on their own.”
“…Yes. It’s a resentful thing, but the previous Pope couldn’t stop it.”
“What they want is for Your Holiness to officially declare that they have done the right thing. Then, we can create the justification as they wish.”
“Justification…”
I kept thinking from the Pope’s perspective.
He knew that it was an unavoidable path, but if things continued as they were, only a catastrophic situation would remain.
What he wanted was not a chance to turn the tables but a way to save face at least.
“When France suppressed the Society of Jesus, the charges they brought were that they illegally embezzled wealth, disrupted the economy, and sold their country’s information to foreign countries. Your Holiness should focus on these points and condemn them.”
“So, you’re saying not to specifically name the Society of Jesus as the target?”
“Yes. Of course, I’m not saying to prohibit the act of engaging in profit-making activities itself. Religious activities also cost money, and the church is involved in various educational projects. But greedily embezzling outside the bounds of the law and committing treason is far beyond the line, isn’t it?”
“I agree with that point.”
The Pope answered immediately.
In fact, the Society of Jesus was one of the products of the Counter-Reformation that the Catholic Church launched to counter the Protestantism that had gained power by criticizing the corruption of the Catholic Church.
If this Society of Jesus were to collapse under attack for immorality, it would inevitably be a major blow to the Holy See.
Then, what if the Pope’s side took the lead in reform in the form of innovation?
It’s just covering your eyes and ringing the bell [a futile attempt to ignore a problem], but originally, it’s important to decorate the appearance somehow.
“In Your Holiness’s name, condemn those who use religion as a means of accumulating wealth, and those who steal even the interests of the country for the sake of wealth, and define them as objects of reform. Then we will respond immediately. Spain will also support Your Holiness’s decision along with us.”
“And you’re going to announce that the Society of Jesus, which has been expelled from each country, was justified in being expelled and having their assets recovered because they fall under these cases.”
“Yes. Then Your Holiness can be seen as having kept your promise, and we and other allies can sufficiently justify the expulsion policy.”
As a bonus, I can return home with the title of a problem solver who has perfectly mediated this situation, which had only been dragging on.
The Pope rested his chin on his hand and pondered for a moment.
No matter how much he worried, no better compromise could be found.
Of course, even if he did this, rather than saving the Pope’s authority, he would only be given the evaluation that he had tried hard, but what was that?
As expected, Clemens XIV slowly nodded as if sighing.
“There’s no choice. I don’t see a better way, so I’ll accept your advice.”
“Thank you.”
“Rather, we should be the ones thanking you. Thanks to you, we may be able to avoid the worst-case scenario, so it’s a relief. I will definitely repay this debt someday.”
I bowed deeply to hide the laughter that was coming out.
Even in a world where the Pope’s authority has fallen, that’s only because there is no coercive power.
Nothing is still as good as the Pope’s words to use as justification.
What the great powers need is ultimately a valid reason to justify their actions, and the Pope can give them that.
Maintaining a friendly relationship with the Pope will certainly be of great help to the plans I draw up later.
I greeted the Pope and called out Cardinal Lazzaro.
“Thanks to you, State Councilor, the story with His Holiness the Pope went well. Thank you.”
“You’re welcome. Rather, we should be the ones saying that. I will do anything I can for you while you are staying here. Please feel free to tell me if you have any requests.”
“Ah, then may I ask you for just one favor?”
“Of course.”
Cardinal Lazzaro, who answered immediately, clearly wanted to do anything for me.
That was proof that I had handled the work reliably, so I couldn’t help but smile.
“I would appreciate it if you could arrange a meeting with the Russian ambassador. However, you must move secretly without the British side knowing.”
If I move directly, it will inevitably reach the ears of the British through some route.
But if the Holy See uses its hand, the story is different.
From the beginning, the reason I made a good impression on the Holy See was to create a place for negotiations that I will be involved in from now on without anyone knowing.
Now that the fishing spot has been prepared, it’s time to go catch the fish.